By John Turney
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| L.C. Greenwood (left) and Ken Anderson (right) |
The massive hullabaloo surrounding the Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft snubs sucked up so much air in the room that it left almost none for the reality that two other senior candidates also got passed over — Ken Anderson and L.C. Greenwood.
Those two, plus Roger Craig, were the trio that made it out of the seniors committee process and got presented to the full Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selectors. Unlike Craig, they didn't pull in the votes needed for induction. We're calling it "needed" because election required at least 40 out of 50 votes (that's the 80% minimum threshold). Well, unless nobody hit 40—in which case it'd go to the top vote-getter (or get split in a tie but that is a story for another day).
We have no clue whether Craig actually cleared that 80% bar or not. All we know for sure is that he was the lone survivor from the combined seniors, coaches, and contributors finalists group to get voted in this year.
Bengals quarterback Ken Anderson and Steelers defensive end L.C. Greenwood didn't make the cut—and it's tough to see either one getting another real shot down the line. Both had popped up on the modern-era final 15 list back in the day, and now they've finally reached that make-or-break yes/no stage in the seniors process. But justifying slots for them in future classes? That looks like a long shot.
Anderson's resume has some real shine: he won four passing titles (passer rating leader in 1974, 1975, 1981, and 1982—one of a few guys in NFL history to hit that mark, and the only one with consecutive titles across two different decades). He was the 1981 NFL MVP, Offensive Player of the Year, and Comeback Player of the Year, plus he led the Bengals to their first Super Bowl appearance that same year (Super Bowl XVI, where he played solid but they fell to Joe Montana's 49ers 26-21).
That said, whenever passer rating (the basis for those passing titles) comes up, you hear the same old debate: it's a great stat on one hand, but it's often called flawed or era-dependent on the other. Pick your side—go figure.
We think Anderson's best claim is that his career is on par with Ken Stabler's. And even Dan Fouts in some ways. Both of them started slow and then had career-ending slides, Fouts less so, and Anderson had a down era, but it was in the middle of his career. It was a different career path but his early-1980s comeback is to his credit, falling from MVP level to let's call it average, back to MVP-level.
It does seem unfair that Anderson is left out, given that Stabler, especially, is not far ahead of him, if any, really. Perhaps the separator is the Super Bowl ring Stabler owns,
With Greenwood, it was also a close-but-no-cigar scenario. He has the four rings, was a vital part of the Steel Curtain Defense, the best edge rusher they had. He was touted by his supporters as a run-stopper, someone who was a left-end who did "the dirty work" for the Steelers, the "two-gap" guy.
That wasn't true, as far as the two-gap, but he was a strong run defender. If he weren't the Steelers' defensive coach, Bud Carson, would not have had him on the field. He was a defensive end who could play the run and who was an excellent pass rusher.
Sometimes his sack totals were not elite, but if pressures were counted, he'd have had a lot. A group like Pro Football Focus (PFF) or NextGen Stats would be his friend had they existed because they often praise guys like that. Maybe a modern era comp may be Rob Burnett or DeMarcus Lawrence, who will be showing his wares in Super Bowl LX, in terms of role. Burnett player before the era of those analytics companies, but Lawrence is a darling of PFF as someone who is a complete edge player.
The question is whether that is good enough for the Hall of Fame.
Greenwood has two consensus All-Pro seasons and was voted to six Pro Bowls, but he wasn't able to get a high number of sacks, even unofficial ones. A nice round mark of 100 or more would have helped. But he was nearly two dozen short of that.
The book is not entirely shut on these two; the seniors committee could vote them out of the committee again, it has happened before, but how fair would that be to those who are still waiting for their cases to be presented to the full committee? The seniors committee will probably choose new blood next year.
Hopefully, there will be changes in the process so more than one player/coach/contributor will end up with a Gold Jacket, as has happened in the last two classes. One is not enough.

To me as a Browns fan both Ken Anderson and L.C. Greenwood belong. Roger Craig is a victory. I rank Ken Anderson and Roger Craig as #1 and #2 in the Seniors. Lavvie Dilweg, Ox Emerson, and Al Wistert might outrank them but it's tough to compare the early guys. Nevermind that no one mentions Pat Swilling, Ray Childress, or Greg Lloyd besides this website. Honorable Mentions: Larry Brown Jr., Lydell Mitchell, Randall Cunningham, Bobby Boyd.
ReplyDeleteStabler just doesn't belong in the hall. Pure fanboy vote. Surely the last QB to be inducted with more int than tds. The fact that the Raiders got rid of him and then won 2 SB doesn't look good. Looks like he took Anderson's spot and that's that.
ReplyDeleteBW ...
DeleteI respect and understand your opinion but Stabler won more big games than Anderson ever did. The Raiders defense was bad in 78-79 but was much better in the early 80s once Martin became a starter at LB and the team added Long and Townsend.
The Snake's winning pct as starter with Oakland was much better than Anderson with Cincy and both teams had the same amount of talent overrall, though the Bengals had underrated players while some were overrated with the Raiders.
Stabler led his team to five consecutive AFC championship games which is why he finally got elected. He was the only QB to lead his team to victory twice over the Steelers in postseason during the 70s.
If both teams had the same level of talent why is only Ken Riley in the hall? And it took a major effort to finally get him in. I don't think
Deleteany other player than Anderson from that era is seriously considered.
QB stat: top 4 seasons according to passer rating for each player :
Ken Anderson 80td/40int
Ken stabler 93td/61int
Remaining career
Ken A 117td/120int (-3)
Ken S 101td/161int (-60)!
Make of that what you will.
BW ...
DeleteYoure right, had the Bengals won it all, Bergey , Curtis, Parrish, Bacon and others might have made the HOF. I already said they had underrated players, Casanova, Trumpy and Johnson as well.
Stabler also, as is commonly known but often forgot, racked up a passer rating in 1976 that was decades ahead of its time.
ReplyDeleteAnderson is a pet project by people trying to force greatness when it just ain’t there.
BW ...
DeleteAnderson was the consummate athlete and accurate as well, but people forget that up until Montana, Stabler had been the most accurate QB in terms of completion percentage in league history.
Very nice article. Yup, the Belichick travesty distracted most of us (me especially). I think that both Anderson and Greenwood belong in the HoF. My test is simple, but it's a smell test. Would the HoF be better or worse if the inductee were voted in? Dr Z had Anderson as 2nd team all-decade (behind Staubach) and Greenwood was on quite a few all-decade teams (1st team per Football Digest as I recall).
ReplyDeleteI’m firmly in the Greenwood camp so the results disappoint me. I believe he compares quite well versus his peers like Bethea and Humphrey. But the new voting system doomed him. I still can’t believe the Hall went to it. Hopefully a change is forthcoming but that would require acknowledgment of a mistake. Institutions rarely like to do that. All five senior/ contributor/ coach candidates belong and the Hall would have been better for their election.
ReplyDeleteKen Stabler belongs in the Hall because he defined an era and a Super Bowl. Stabler was also named All Decade for the 1970s.
ReplyDeleteKen Anderson was excellent, but the Hall has never rewarded efficiency alone the same way.
BW ...
DeleteAs mentioned above, Stabler struggled after leaving the Raiders but Bum Phillips obtained him thinking he could beat the Steelers where Pastorini could not. Davis didnt mind trading him because he liked Dante's arm better but he couldnt survive the season, opening the door for Plunkett and the defense to win it all in 1980.
Stabler had a tough year in 1980 for Houston but didnt have anyone to throw to other than Casper and Barber with Burrough missing nearly the entire year. Billy Johnson and Mike Renfro werent factors at receiver and they even tried to get the ball to another tight end in Rich Caster. The team was tough behind Campbell and still won 11 games. The next year with a healthy Burrough, Stabler cut his interceptions in half but the defense faultered with Bum and young Wade, no longer there. The Snake's arm and knees were done, but Bum still brought him to the Saints, thinking they could finally win.
The 70's Raiders are greatly overvalued by the hof. Their offensive unit has SEVEN starters in the hall which was the most for any offense until Mac Speedie was finally put in from the old Browns.
DeleteThose teams of course won 7 titles in 10 years while the Raiders won only one.
BW ...
DeleteTrue, which is why Stabler and Branch had to wait so long for enshrinement. Same for Speedie with the Browns, and now Greenwood and Martin are going through it with the Steelers and Cowboys.
The Patriots are starting to enshrine alot of their players from their 2000-2010s dominance, but I never believed Vinatieri would get voted in before Kraft, Belichick, Gronk, Brady and Harrison. Law and Seymour are already in and its doubtful they will have an offensive lineman get voted in unless its Mankins, who liked to get nasty in the trenches. I still feel Samuel has a case, but dont feel McGinest will get enough momentum despite having the most official, postseason sacks.
So no "Small Hall" folks here?? I'm a Steeler fan and don't think LC should be in - and don't think Shell should be in, I think we water this down. One mistake begats another . . . . Bethea is in - oh then we need LC . . . . Floyd Little is in then we need Frank Gore and Tiki and so and so and so and so. As a kid, born 74, I heard about Unitas and Tarkenton and Staubach - and they looked different, not sure Warren Moon did. Heard about Marchetti and Deacon and they looked different, Bethea, ehhh. Film matters to me.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but Bob Brown is in for his body of work prior to joining the Raiders. But i agree with you in general. Unfortunately, there are many teams who have been overvalued by HOF voters, yet their fans still clamor for more inductions!
ReplyDeleteBW ...
DeleteJim Otto also overlapped eras. Shell and Upshaw were great but could have down years as well. It took awhile for the Raiders to utilize Casper, who was excellent with Houston also. Biletnikoff might have been the best slow receiver ever, other than Berry. Some question his entry into the HOF but he had some good postseason numbers. His career was shorter, which hurt Joe Namath, but George Sauer Jr was very similar to him. Willie Brown the only member on defense, while some believe Tatum has a case. Long, of course came later.
As do you! But you’re a Card Carrying Genius!
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