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Thursday, September 26, 2024

What We're All Missing About Bucs' Lavonte David

By John Turney 

Before I get started, let's get something straight: No, Tampa Bay Buccaneer linebacker Lavonte David hasn't retired. He's starting with the Bucs for a 13th consecutive season, which means that even if he retired after this year he wouldn't be eligible for the Pro Football Hall of  Fame until 2030.

So, now that we have that out of the way, let's move to the obvious question: Why talk about him now? Well, because no matter when he's eligible, it's almost guaranteed that he'll be overlooked.

For most of his career, he has been by AP All-Pro voters, and he was when Hall-of-Fame voters chose the 2010s' all-decade team. So it's a safe bet that he won't draw much interest when the Hall adds him to its list of modern-era eligible players, no matter what year it is.

And that's not right. Here's why.

As suggested, David has not been a highly decorated player, named first-team All-Pro once and chosen to one Pro Bowl, but that's mostly due to a couple of things: 1) The position he plays -- for much of his career he was a weakside linebacker, not the more publicized middle linebacker that always has a higher profile, and 2) he lacks the sacks of most outside linebackers, the ones who play on the edge.

That makes a difference.

Since the Class of 2000, only two modern-era WILL-type linebackers who played this century have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame -- Derrick Brooks and Junior Seau. The rest have either been middle, inside or edge linebackers.

That doesn't mean there haven't been outside linebackers enshrined in the last 25 years. There have been, but only a handful: Chuck Howley, Chris Hanburger, Dave Robinson and Dave Wilcox. But they were 4-3 outside linebackers who made the Hall of Fame as senior finalists, not as modern-era candidates, with careers that ranged from the late-1950s through the late-1970s.

In other words, they had to wait a long time. 

You could also throw in Robert Brazile as a 3-4 outside linebacker, who didn't end his career with 100 or more sacks and was a complete linebacker, much like the 4-3 guys mentioned. He was a senior finalist, too, though he didn't have to wait as long on Canton after his career ended in 1984. 

In contrast, a spate of recent outside linebackers of the "rushbacker" variety were inducted in the past 25 years, including Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett, DeMarcus Ware, Ricky Jackson and Kevin Greene. That's six rush linebackers vs. two complete ones. At the same time, middle or inside linebackers Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Patrick Willis, Zach Thomas and Sam Mills -- all of whom were modern-era finalists -- won Gold Jackets, too. 

Final count: "Rush/Edge" 'backers and inside/middle linebackers - 11; WILL 'backers -- 2. 

So, what does all this have to do with Lavonte David? It's just another example of why his path to Canton might be difficult. Nevertheless, what he's done as well as anyone at his position ... ever ... is something few reporters and fewer fans know about -- and that's stopping opponents behind the line of scrimmage.

The 2012 second-round pick out of Nebraska is a dominant run-and-pass stuffer, who fills his gap or can sprint to the flat to tackle a back or receiver for a loss.  And he does it over and over and over again, almost more times than you can count. 

Except, you can ... and they matter.

Starting in 1999, the NFL added a statistical category called "tackles for loss" (TFL), and, while imperfect, it reflects what David does so adroitly. The all-time leader in the TFL category is Terrell Suggs, with a total of 202. Next is J.J. Watt with 195 and Aaron Donald with 176. Lavonte David is ninth with 160.

Why is that Hall-worthy? Considering that all eight ahead of him are pass rushers and that the NFL's TFL stat includes quarterback sacks (where David has just 33-1/2, while others have 100 or more), David shows up well vs. the great sack meisters. In fact, among off-ball linebackers, he's ahead of Hall-of-Famer Brian Urlacher, who checks in next at 138, or 22 fewer than David.

The NFL's TFL list goes back 25 years, but research extends farther and lends more perspective and context to Lavonte David's accomplishments. Some background: In 1994 STATS, Inc. (now STATS Perform) began tracking what it called "stuffs," which were calculated differently than TFLs. But they tell a similar story same story and go back 30 years.

Pro football researcher Nick Webster took STATS's idea and tweaked it to include pass plays for losses -- a bubble screen, for example -- and he took them back 50 or 60 years, depending on the quality of records and films. In what Webster calls "run-and-pass stuffs," David currently has 134-1/2 -- lower than the NFL's total of 160, but only because STATS did not include sacks and neither does Webster.

In Webster's research, Seau is the top man on the list with 171 run/pass stuffs in his 20-year career. Other than Seau and David, the only two off-ball linebackers who have more than 100 are Ray Lewis (117) and Urlacher (104). Two contemporaries who were also WILLs were Lance Briggs and Derrick Brooks, and Briggs had 92 run/pass stuffs and Brooks 77-/2.

Bottom line: Regardless of the source, the proof is there. David was in backfields consistently, and that matters because it puts offenses "behind the sticks" and opposing coaches in foul moods. Plus, he was always around the ball (1,497 career tackles and counting), delivering a pop when he hit his target. His 29 forced fumbles are the most of any off-ball linebacker since 1994 when Pro Football Reference began tracking them. Brooks, the next WILL 'backer on the list, had 24, while Ray Lewis had 19 and Patrick Willis 16. 

Add to that there's the opinion of Bobby Wagner, a potential first-ballot Hall-of-Famer after he retires. When asked on the "Up and Adams" podcast if David was Hall-of-Fame worthy, Wagner's answer was as direct as it was immediate. 

"I don't think he gets the love he deserves," the six-time first-team All-Pro said. "He's done so much amazing stuff over the course of his career, and I definitely think he should be there (Canton).

"He does a good job finding the football, does a real good job reading screens, comes downhill and makes plays ... he's going to be in the backfield. He's good at coverage. There is so much he can do at a high level ... it's really impressive. He's a guy you have to plan for; you've got to know where he's at." 

Note: Wagner has nine career forced fumbles and 93 TFLs. David, remember, has 29 and 160, respectively. Just sayin'.

The analytics site, Pro Football Focus (PFF), has graded all players at all positions since 2006, and, while sometimes controversial, their findings are worth considering. For instance: 

-- In PFF's grading system, Lavonte David ranked as a top-10 off-ball linebacker seven times, including six seasons where he was in the top five.

-- In its coverage grades, he's been top 10 seven times, including five times in the top five, and in 2019 ranked first. 

-- His grades are similar to linebackers Willis (a member of the Hall's Class of 2024), Wagner and Luke Kuechly ... and just about anyone else you can think of.

Will Lavonte David reach the Hall of Fame? I'm skeptical. But SHOULD he? If greatness is the standard, regardless of the number of All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections, yes. I just explained why.





4 comments:

  1. BW ...

    What do you guys think of Demario Davis? Every time I have watched him, he flies to the ball. If the Saints make the playoffs, its because he, Jordan and Mathieu are making plays.

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    1. If you are asking me, like him a lot ... probably better pass rusher than some of the off ball LBers ...

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  2. What about Donnie Edwards in relation to David?

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    1. Edwards in relation to David is behind, but still very good --- we're talking stats, I assume. Edwards 23 FF, 86 stuffs, 27-1/2 sacks, 1,146 tackles

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