Friday, August 11, 2023

What to Make of Cowherd's 'Small Hall' and First-Ballot Takes

by John Turney  
It happens every year.

Canton's Hall of Fame Weekend stirs up conversations among fans, players and media, all with their takes on the institution that honors the best of the best players in NFL history.

And so it is that Colin Cowherd, host of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports, entered the arena this week, calling not for more Hall of Famers.

But for fewer.

"I am one of those," he said, "where the Hall of Fame would have far fewer members. It does not matter if it is the broadcasting Hall of Fame, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the 'Football Hall of Fame', the Baseball, Basketball Hall of Fame. They are all watered down. ... The minute you water it down and you put them in with all-time greats it feels lesser-than."

Fair enough. We all have our views on the Pro Football Hall of Fame and whether it should be a "small Hall" or a more inclusive one. Reasonable people can disagree. But then Cowherd went on.

"To me," he said, "there are 10 players in the NFL right now that are first-ballot Hall of Famers."

And he named them:

Patrick Mahomes—"Mahomes ... if he retired today ... he's a Hall of Famer."

Aaron Rodgers—"I think Aaron Rodgers, who I always like better than Brett Favre, is a slam-dunk Hall of Famer."

Travis Kelce—"Kelce could retire today, he’s in. So is his brother, Jason."

Trent Williams—"Trent Williams may be the best left tackle ever .. he is on a shortlist"

Jason Kelce—"Arguably the best center in the history of the league."

Aaron Donald—"Aaron Donald, second best interior defensive lineman I’ve ever seen to Reggie White ... and it's close."

Myles Garrett and Von Miller—"Myles Garrett and Von Miller -- they just look different and play different."

Bobby Wagner—"Bobby Wagner is a nine-time All-Pro. He’s a Hall of Famer ... a tackling machine"

Justin Tucker—"Every other kicker, at some point, becomes unstable ... a little bit of a head case ... you’re not sure. He is the automatic in a position with no automatics"

"To me," Cowherd said, "these are the Hall of Famers currently playing."

HOW I SEE IT

OK, first things first: It's a good list. But are they all first-ballot candidates, as he contends? 

I don't think so.

First, there's one clear omission. It's Dallas guard Zack Martin. Martin will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.  However, to be fair, Cowherd may have gotten some pushback here because in a later interview with Mark Schlereth, he said he "may be missing the interior offensive lineman for the Cowboys."

Not "may be." He did.

So how about the rest of his predictions?

Mahomes? Cowherd is right.

Travis Kelce? Right again.

Aaron Rodgers? Correct.

Trent Williams? That's a maybe. 

It's not a "maybe" on his being the best left tackle in history as Cowherd contends. In a world that includes Anthony Munoz, it's a "no." As far as a first-ballot Hall of Famer, let's remember that the 6-5, 320-pound tackle has been a first-team AP All-Pro just twice in his career and an AP second-team All-Pro one other year.

Included in the dossiers that the Pro Football Hall sends annually to voters are all the major All-Pro teams, including the PFWA and The Sporting News. They would bolster Williams' case. Because Williams was a first-team Sporting News All-Pro three times, that makes him a five-time All-Pro -- twice consensus -- in the eyes of the Hall of Fame. 

So, how does that compare to other first-ballot left tackles? 

Munoz was a consensus All-Pro seven times and 11 times overall. Jonathan Ogden was a first-time All-Pro in seven seasons, with five of them considered consensus All-Pro years. Walter Jones was a consensus All-Pro five times and six times overall. The Class of 2023's Joe Thomas was an eight-time All-Pro, with six consensus.

While All-Pro (and Pro Bowl selections) are not the only criteria voters weigh, they seem to be a starting point ... and Williams falls short in comparison. He no doubt will pass the voters' "eye test" and receive a surfeit of praise from opposing edge rushers.

But so did Munoz, Ogden, Jones and Thomas. 

Judging by Cowherd's parameters, if Williams suffered a career-ending now, he's no first-ballot lock. Of course, if he plays a few more years at his current level, his first-ballot possibilities improve.

Let's move on to Jason Kelce.  This is a tough one, and it's likely ... but not a slam dunk. Dwight Stephenson or Mike Webster fans would challenge Cowherd's contention that Kelce is the best-ever center. And, in terms of being inducted immediately? Remember: When we're talking centers, only Jim Otto and Jim Langer made it to Canton in their first years of eligibility. 

Cowherd is right about Aaron Donald, though the statement about Reggie White as an interior defensive lineman is curious. White did play some inside -- as a nose tackle in Buddy Ryan's 46 defense and as a defensive tackle in some nickel packages ;; and played a couple of years as a 3-4 defensive end. But most people consider him a defensive end -- and some as the best-ever at that position.

Nonetheless, Donald is a first-ballot lock. Cowherd nailed this one.

Myles Garrett. Again, if the premise is that his career ended now, the answer would be "no" on his first-ballot chances. He simply needs to do more. Six years and 74-1/2 sacks in a hypothetical short career won't put him in on anyone's first ballot. When he does more -- in, maybe, five more years, with 50 more sacks and four or five more Pro Bowls (he's been to four) -- then we can talk.

It is, however, fair to say he's on schedule to get there.

With Von Miller, Cowherd is probably right. Two rings for Miller will help, but remember: Derrick Thomas and DeMarcus Ware were not first-ballot inductees, as odd as that may seem. If we play out this exercise and 2022 was his final year, Miller's "eye test" would probably take him over the top.

Bobby Wagner. Cowherd is correct. 

Calling Wagner a "nine-time" All-Pro does reveal that he (more likely his staff) doesn't distinguish between first and second-team All-Pro. Even so, Wagner has done enough and should get his Gold Jacket right away.

Justin Tucker is another tough one. 

In his commentary, Cowherd nailed Tucker as the complete package: Accurate, great leg and clutch. But if Tucker's career ended now? It's hard to say what voters might do with a kicker with just 11 years in the NFL.

What might help his case is that Jan Stenerud, the first specialist enshrined in Canton, was a first-ballot choice in 1991. However, Stenerud played 19 seasons, and Morten Andersen 25. They're the only two kickers in the Hall.

Then there's Adam Vinatieri. He'll almost certainly joins them in Canton, though not necessarily as a first-ballot choice. He had 24 seasons to his credit.  For Tucker to join Stenerud as a first-ballot Hall of Famer, he'd likely have to play at least another five or six seasons. 

Clearly, there are more current players who will be enshrined in Canton, but they may have to wait years ... as will some on Cowherd's list. The twin Cams, for example — Cam Jordan and Cam Heyward -- almost certainly will be Hall of Famers, but not as pure pass rushers (one as edge; the other as interior). Both defend the run well.

Still, they're unlikely first-ballot candidates. 

Russell Wilson is another possibility. He had a rough year in 2022, but assuming he were to stop playing today, he has a solid shot at the Hall ... though, again, not on his first try.

There are others on a Hall-of-Fame trajectory, with Pittsburgh's T.J. Watt the most prominent of those Cowherd mentioned. He has as good a case as Garrett -- six years, 77-1/2 sacks and three first-team All-Pro seasons -- and, like Garrett, must maintain his current level a few years longer.

Others that Cowherd mentioned are relative newbies in the league -- Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson, Nick Bosa, Micah Parsons, Fred Warner and Patrick Surtain II. All have a long way to go, but, as Cowherd said, they're obvious standouts.

Overall, Cowherd did a credible job, so there's no reason to knock him. He identified most of the players with cases for instant immortality, with the exception of Zack Martin. Plus, his view on a smaller Hall is not uncommon.

However, the only voice that matters is the Hall's, and recent classes have been maxed out. There are no open slots as there were with the board of selectors 25-30 years ago. So, while Cowherd's suggestion is intriguing, a "small hall" isn't going to happen anytime soon.

14 comments:

  1. I didn't get past OT in the article....Munoz, Ogden, Thomas, Trent Williams but let's not omit 8 time Pro-Bowler and 5 time All-Pro, Mr. Roosevelt Brown, the ultimate technician in an era before guys could reach out and grab and push and pull.....doncha think Rosey should be on the Rushmore of Left Tackles?

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    1. This post was about if Williams (and the others) would be first-ballot if their careers ended today. So, I just compared him to the left tackles that were first-ballot guys.

      Brown was omitted because he was not first-ballot.

      Jim Parker omitted because he was both All-Pro guard and tackle, not a pure left tackle. (He laos played some right tackle).

      Had Roosevelt Brown been a first-ballot HOfer, I would have certainly included him.

      Who is on the Rushmore of Left tackles, to me anyway, is a different discussion. Only comment I made was that I think Munoz is the GOAT left tackle and that is my opinion.

      When I ranked best tackles ever, I ranked Rosey Brown 4th among left tackles and 6th overall. So, I agree with you, Brown is on my "Rushmore" of left tackles.

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  2. BW ...

    We will see on Williams and Garrett. Mahomes is great, no doubt but we will see if he and Burrow make it to ten years. Mahomes can have feet, ankle problems and Burrow's body isnt built to keep taking hits, especially if he gets reckless trying to run around like Jim McMahon. A SB win will make him a legend in Cincy but time will tell on the HOF.

    I like Rosey myself, though Walter Jones was great at left tackle as well.

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  3. Think Dwight Stephenson is best center ever not Kelce. Martin should easily make the Hall too.

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  4. BW ...

    Glad TOFTWO keeps bringing up Buddy Parker for election. Voters need to put him in but I still think it will be Kraft.
    Anyone but McCaskey and Rooney.

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    1. Only reason Kraft is not already in is because of the "incident". Now, enough time has passed they can get him in.

      One of Buddy Clark's top advocates will not be in meeting so he loses a top advocate.

      I think RK will be nominee---but hoping for BP, but not expecting a miracle.

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    2. I just do not understand this business about having owners inducted into the HoF....Jerry Jones? ugh, do not get me started on that guy....more immediately....so what kind of actual difference has RK made to pro football?,....not just a gripe, what kind of case does he have?

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    3. BW ...

      I am sure like Jones and Hyman Roth, Kraft always makes money for his partners but football wise he pulled off getting Parcells and pulling the Patriots out of the doldrums, though they lost the SB, and getting Belichick away from the Jets, where the team has nearly 20 years of greatness and winning six SBs and nine AFC championships during a salary capped, free agency era.

      He also chose Brady over Jimmy G, which was right in hindsight as he won his last championship in 2018, while Garappollo has struggled with injuries, though Brady won elsewhere after leaving NE ... Too much success to be denied, though many feel the franchise cheated or got away with alot. Remember too, the team nearly had a perfect season in 2007 but also a perfect regular season.

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    4. thanks for tresponding but I still think it's a load of undeserved, backslapping nonsense....your comparison of JJ to Hyman Roth rings SO true....special thanks for that!

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    5. BW ...

      Thats true Jim and hopefully he will be the last owner voted in but we know that wont be the case.
      Ralph Hay would be better than any of them but we will see.

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  5. BW ...

    I agree, Allen ... Stephenson is the best center I have ever seen, though I like watching the quickness of Jim Ringo on films ...

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  6. ....every center is asked to make the same blocks, yet when looking at the all-time greats; which blocks could he make better than the others, was there an aspect to his blocking that stood out? Years ago, Paul Lionel Zimmerman shared with me how well Stephenson "cut" off rushmen and when I asked him to compare him to others, he talked about Webster's ability to maintain his block against powerful nose tackles, but Stephenson was almost as effective as Webster was. Z talked about Langer, and all that he could, and did do, yet he would refer back to Stephenson's quickness.

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  7. Matthew Slater should be unanimous. The greatest ever at his position.

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    1. One of. Didn't block kicks like the top 3-4-5 guys did. Monster in coverage, but so were Tasker, BA, KO, IS, and so on. Slater only 1 BK, 3 FF, 1 FR ... 5 splash plays ... others had 10,12, 14, 16 similar such plays... numbers like that .... "Blue players make blue plays"--Proscout, Inc.

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